May 10, 1969: A conversation with disciples, Columbus, Ohio (His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada)
Kirtanananda: In Krishna consciousness, are the actions of the jiva similarly controlled by Krishna's superior energy?
Prabhupada: Yes, certainly.
Kirtanananda: But everything is being controlled ultimately by Krishna.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Kirtanananda: Either by inferior energy or superior energy.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.
Kirtanananda: So his activities are never independent, either in Krishna or...
Prabhupada: Never, never, never. That is his insanity, another. As soon as he thinks that "I am independent," that is another insanity. He is under control. Just like the same man. He is thinking, "I don't care for state laws." He is insane. He will be forced to accept state laws in the prison house by the police. But he thinks, "Oh, I am free man." Still... He is slapped by the police. He says, "Oh, I am independent. Go on slapping." This is insanity. Is it not insanity? The police slaps him, and he says, "I am independent." Do you think independence? So that sort of independence we are having.
We are kicked by maya always, and we are thinking, "independent." This is insanity. He does not think, "Why I am independent? I am servant of my senses. I cannot remain, enjoying senses, for an hour, and I am thinking I am independent." That means insane. He cannot think properly. Where is his independence? Cannot be independent. He is born dependent because part and parcel of God. His constitutional position is dependent.
Just like child. A child declares independence. What is the meaning of that independence? Danger. That's all. Simply inviting dangers. A child wants: "Oh, I don't care for my parents. I shall cross the road. I shall go everywhere." So if he is allowed to do that, that means he is simply inviting dangers. And if he remains under the protection of the parents, he is always safe. So this living entity's declaring independence means he is insane, different kinds of insanity. He cannot be independent. Let him think very deeply that it cannot be independent. He is thinking independent of God, but he is dependent on his sense pleasure. That's all. And some intoxication, a voluntarily accept dependence of something maya. That's all. Who is independent. Is there anyone independent? Nobody is independent. To think of independence is maya.
Best thing is that "I am dependent, and let me remain dependent in properly. Then I am protected." That is Krishna consciousness. So your question is answered?
Material consciousness means thinking falsely independent. That is material consciousness. Falsely. He is not independent, but he is thinking falsely, "I am independent."
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